helen99: A windswept tree against a starlit sky (Default)
[personal profile] helen99
After dining at an excellent Korean restauraunt, I accompanied friends to see The Golden Compass last night.


Fortunately I have not read the books yet, so I didn't know what I was missing, but it seemed like there was way more to the story than what was shown. For example, why was the Magesterium so intent on severing children from their demons (souls in animal form)? What happened to the boy who lost his demon due to the Magesterium's "intercision" process? What happened to Lord Azrael, who was about to be arrested and executed for heresy by the Magesterium? Did Lyra and her father ever encounter the Dust that was disovered in the North? Did they visit other worlds?

I guess all of that might be shown in the sequel, if this one does well enough to make a sequel of it. I get the feeling that "The Golden Compass" was mainly setting the stage for the sequel.

The Magesterium is obviously based on the Inquisition-era church archetype. I usually avoid anything to do with that subject like the plague. The most sickening aspect of the Magesterium was their belief that severing people from their souls to better manipulate them was 'for their own good'... The worst scene was when they almost did that to Lyra.

Once the Magesterium realized they weren't confined to their own world any longer, they planned to invade other worlds and dimensions with their sickness. As their representative said, "My dear man, the authority of the magesterium is everywhere".

Hearing this said, in the way it was said reminded me too much of certain aspects of our own world's current events. By seeking to own and control everything, everywhere (including the Arctic and Antarctic), they are severing the Earth's soul from itself the way they have already done with much of the earth's human population.

The movie did not leave one with a happy feeling... I found it to be realistic and appropriate to now. The talking warrior bears, the Aletheometer, and the Demons - they all exist here in one form or another...

After the movie, we went to visit with friends and talked about the nature of evil. I think severing a child from its demon was damned evil (even if it was just a story).

(no subject)

Date: 2007-12-16 12:22 am (UTC)
ivy: (guesting)
From: [personal profile] ivy
Same here -- haven't read the books, but now might. I thought the worst scene was Lyra walking into that frozen house thing. They were doing all the horror movie things to be creepy, and I hate that. I want to grow up to be an archer witch, though -- they were awesome.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-12-16 01:47 am (UTC)
ext_5300: tree in the stars (Emily Strange)
From: [identity profile] helen99.livejournal.com
I expected some horrid skeletal monster to leap out at any moment. Instead she found a horribly damaged friend (even worse). I'm glad I didn't see that movie as a kid - seeing another kid harmed was the one thing that sent me into hysterics or uncontrollable trembling and teeth chattering. I was a weird kid. The witches were Wondrous flying elves...

(no subject)

Date: 2007-12-16 03:39 pm (UTC)
ext_52361: (Default)
From: [identity profile] scraun23.livejournal.com
you would definitely enjoy the books then. The witches are even cooler than they are in the movie, and much more detailed as well.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-12-16 12:37 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] iliandriel.livejournal.com
It is indeed bad when someone does something horrendous to another thinking it is for their own good. I've yet to see the movie but I may go see it. Haven't decided yet. There is quite a bit of hoopla on it.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-12-16 01:43 am (UTC)
ext_5300: tree in the stars (blue)
From: [identity profile] helen99.livejournal.com
I found it to be stressful but I'm glad I saw it... I think it's worth looking at.

Movie

Date: 2007-12-16 02:22 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] iliandriel.livejournal.com
I'm thinking you may be right. They made such a fuss over Harry Potter, and also the DaVinci code. I'm glad I've seen both of them. Sounds like a plan.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-12-16 12:49 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] historychick49.livejournal.com
For example, why was the Magesterium so intent on severing children from their demons (souls in animal form)? What happened to the boy who lost his demon due to the Magesterium's "intercision" process? What happened to Lord Azrael, who was about to be arrested and executed for heresy by the Magesterium? Did Lyra and her father ever encounter the Dust that was disovered in the North? Did they visit other worlds?

I can answer your second question; he died. I *think* this was shown in the movie, but very briefly and in the background. Different boy than in the book, but he died anyway. I think your first question was also discussed in the movie, but basically it's because the Magisterium is so afraid of Dust, and they've discovered that Dust is attracted to adults (and post-puberty children) but not to young children, and so in their minds they've decided that Dust is evil and that by performing intercision they can somehow stop the Dust from being attracted to people. Dust is kind of an allegory for original sin, in a way.

The other questions *should* be answered in the sequel movies. They were actually answered in the first book, but oh well.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-12-16 01:40 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] yldann.livejournal.com
From what I've heard there was also an ulterior motive to the intercision, which was to gather the energy that the severing produced so the magesterium could get to other worlds. Not sure of the exact details though, since I haven't read any of the books...

I heard about what happens to the second boy from the friends I saw the movie with. So even someone who appeared 'good' (Azrael) wasn't really. On the one hand we have religion without conscience and on the other hand, science without conscience, and each thinks it's doing the best thing for its victims (the kids).

My favorite scene was the one in the very beginning -- the wild kids running and running with their animals...
It sort of caused me to look at my kitties a little differently.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-12-16 01:42 am (UTC)
ext_5300: tree in the stars (Default)
From: [identity profile] helen99.livejournal.com
Oops - sorry - that was me. Forgot I was logged into the other journal.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-12-16 02:05 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jarandhel.livejournal.com
The books are very good. Arhuaine gave them to me a few years ago. I really need to read them again sometime. When you get a chance, you might want to check it out. From what I've heard, your instinct that there was way more to the story than was shown was exactly right. A lot has been cut out of the movie version, even more than was cut out of LOTR by the removal of Tom Bombadil and some of the other side-plots.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-12-16 02:42 am (UTC)
ext_5300: tree in the stars (Default)
From: [identity profile] helen99.livejournal.com
I think in this case some main plot points were left out and not just side-plots. I do plan to read the books. Rialian dug them up today - apparently we already have them and I never knew it.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-12-16 03:41 pm (UTC)
ext_52361: (Default)
From: [identity profile] scraun23.livejournal.com
Severing is even more evil than you think, as the demons are basically the souls of the people in this world. I didn't think that was really made clear unless you knew what to look for.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-12-16 06:21 pm (UTC)
ext_5300: tree in the stars (Default)
From: [identity profile] helen99.livejournal.com
Actually, it was... The narrator at the very beginning of the movie says it - it would have been easy to miss but I did happen to catch it. They were cutting off people's souls (just like they do here...)

(no subject)

Date: 2007-12-17 04:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] animelily.livejournal.com
I'm a big fan of the books. And yes, the Magesterium is based on Inquisition-era church. "Magesterium" and "General Oblation Board" are both actual entities in the Catholic Church.

Due to the religious nature of our society, the movie producers tried to downplay some of the anti-established religious themes that were in the book.
In the books one of those is the reason why the Magesterium was so intent on the severing is Dust. In the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve didn't have settled daemons. When they gained knowledge from the Tree of Good and Evil their daemons settled. Children's daemons don't settle so children are seen as innocent beings. Dust doesn't settle on children and only settles on adults. Adults are more evil than children (from the previous argument about settled daemons) so that must mean Dust is evil. Really Dust is unknown, and fear of the unknown drives most of "Dust=evil" idea. The truth is that Dust isn't evil at all, but that's all spoilers.

Oh and the boy who lost Ratter died very soon after he was found. What happens with Lord Azriel happens at the end of the first book, but it seems they wanted to put it in the second movie instead.

Either way I recommend the books. They're a great read, just don't start reading them before you have something important to do. You won't be able to put them down. =)

(no subject)

Date: 2007-12-17 06:33 pm (UTC)
ext_5300: tree in the stars (Cat Malcontent)
From: [identity profile] helen99.livejournal.com
Agg... "Dust settles on your soul, which makes you evil, so the obvious answer is, cut the child's soul out before it's too late!" (maybe they forgot that the Demon actually was the soul?)

Oddly, this reminds me of the public school system. Kids are (usually) not dead by the time they graduate from school, but sometimes it's hard not to flatline emotionally and spiritually after 12+ years of it.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-12-17 10:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] animelily.livejournal.com
Yeah, essentially that's the argument. They see Dust as proof of original sin. And in the books most people don't really quite understand that daemon's are a manifestation of the soul. I know they said it so off the hat in the beginning of the movie, but it's something that's figured out gradually. In fact they mention a lot of stuff in the beginning off the hat that's learned gradually. It's a little irritating. =/

If I remember correctly, in the books the nurses at Bolvangar were experiments in cutting. Supposedly adults survived cutting and turned into very docile and controllable creatures. No child had survived cutting for very long hence more experiments. It'll break your heart to read about the caged daemons.

I really do recommend reading the books. He paints a far more colorful and rich picture than the movies do. Though the movie had it's perks (including Nicole Kidman's performance. PERFECT ABSOLUTELY PERFECT) you really need to read the books.

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