helen99: A windswept tree against a starlit sky (Default)
helen99 ([personal profile] helen99) wrote2004-04-19 11:27 am
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Chance meeting

Yesterday, we took a trip to Behnke's super duper tree nursery and every-plant-there-is extravaganza -- The place is huge, spanning several acres and two large buildings. They have every imaginable gardening thingy plus all the scientific information required to assemble and operate the thingies. They also have many kinds of plants from everywhere, even Venus' Flytraps, and more kinds of trees than I know about.

One of the trees we saw was a Curly Willow - it was the coolest thing! It grows about 10' tall, and the branches grow in irregular corkscrew-like patterns - very pretty. We also saw some lovely Scotch Broom - I actually made a broom with that once for a pagan circle - I think making my own props for a ritual is the most fun part.

Strictly by coincidence of course, Orion, an old friend and local magical teacher in the area, just happened to be there, and I just happened to find him wandering in the vast array of florage. As a point of reference, he's the one who built the Faerie Cairn at Four Quarters Farm. He is one of those magnetic people who is usually completely surrounded by students, groupies, hangers on, and others demanding attention whenever we see him, so we never have a chance to talk to him. After a minute, someone always barges in and demands his attention - never mind that he was in the middle of a sentence talking with us. His ears looked exceptionally pointed when I found him (they seem to point more each time I see him)...

This time, there was nobody around but us, so we were treated to a mini-workshop, until, that is, he got a call on his cell phone (damn those things). It was a call from home -- his main water pump had died and he had to leave immediately. But before that happened, we got him to ourselves for about 20 minutes (truly a once in a lifetime event).

The topic of conversation was Awakening ... the possibility that in the distant past, those from the realm of faerie, (a.k.a., perhaps, the annunaki), at one time interbred with humans, and if so, how does that heritage awaken, and what would be the result of awakening that heritage.

He said he believes that there was such an intermarriage, and there certainly is such a heritage, that it is more prevalent in certain bloodlines, and that the more one focuses on refining the trait, the more pronounced it becomes. But he also said that those who say they want to have the trait, probably do not have it, because the ones who do have it never wanted it in the first place, and usually find it to be horribly disturbing for a long time until they come to grips with it...

He's of the strong opinion that people of this heritage must open to it and embrace it, but also embrace and not reject a human aspect. If they don't do this, he said, they cannot be anchor points who allow the interaction between human and faerie and somehow restore the balance of nature (I'm paraphrasing, so I hope I didn't mess this up). Personally, I don't think restoring the balance is possible given the current population, but anyway that's what he said.

He made the distinction between fae (the Forever Young, the Good Folk, the Ancient Ones) and fey (those Impressed with the Trait). One interesting thing he said was that if some people were Impressed with the Trait, this is most probably a 2-way event - some of the Forever Young are Impressed with human traits.

I'm not sure I liked that too much. What would the effect be? (hopefully not political institutions and secret police in faerie, as some I met long ago indicated). Hopefully not pettiness and freeways and McDonalds. Hopefully more like a kind of bridge between realms, focusing on greater understandings. He had to leave before we got any further with it.

I'm not sure how I feel about all of that. I saw a picture of someone who said he was an elf, and he had mighty pointed ears (most pointed I've ever seen). They weren't photoshopped or pasted on. Sorting through it. Maybe it's a matter of semantics. There are discarnate Forever Young, and there are incarnate elves. I think he doesn't like the use of the term 'elf' to describe something physical. Of course, [livejournal.com profile] rialian is working on him concerning the semantics thing.

The reason we went to Behnke's in the first place was to look for Hawthorn trees - I wanted to plant one in the yard (yes, another tree). We found some, but they were a lot bigger than I wanted - I wanted a baby and these were teenagers. So we decided to wait on that - Instead we bought a little stone basin about 20 or so inches across, and a little mushroom shaped birdbath, and three packages of mycorizal fungi. We put the basin in the back yard and filled it with water, and brought some big stones from the creek. The beginnings of a faerie cairn. This should be very interesting... I love working with stones, so building this should be a joy. Taking off now to find some rocks in captivity that I can rescue...

[identity profile] shadomere.livejournal.com 2004-04-19 09:53 am (UTC)(link)
I'm sure you didn't set out to inspire but you did. I think I just may have to make an effort now to make a little faery place at my home. Yeah, that feels right. Must be that time of year. Thanks! ;)

[identity profile] dreamfall.livejournal.com 2004-04-19 11:54 am (UTC)(link)
The topic of conversation was Awakening ... the possibility that in the distant past, those from the realm of faerie, (a.k.a., perhaps, the annunaki), at one time interbred with humans, and if so, how does that heritage awaken, and what would be the result of awakening that heritage.

You have no idea how much what you just said sent ripples and ripples of chills all up and down my spine.

I have been exploring just such a connection both through meditation and through realtime research and reading into the Watchers/Annunaki/Sumero-Akkadian connection. I have this incredibly strong Feeling and have for some time that there is a strong connection there. The things I have found out both in the realtime sense and also in the Dreamtime of my own soul's previous paths is a lot of why I had finally shed "Tiernan" because it was no longer descriptive of who and what I am. "Yarriel Mal'akh Annunage" can't be literally translated into English, but loosely translated it refers roughly to "Messenger of God from the nighttime/moonlight sphere". "Shadow side of god and the messenger" is another way of saying that conceptually.
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[identity profile] illuviel.livejournal.com 2004-04-19 12:35 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh yeah, there is this too in the pinginess that I have taken as a given for me these days. I would definitely be interested in discussing more. Kidnap Orion and bring him to Thresholds. :>
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[identity profile] rialian.livejournal.com 2004-04-19 12:45 pm (UTC)(link)
===Working on it...I think it will happen sometime, but this year is unlikely.

===If you were to travel up this way sometime, I would arrange for some time at their Faery Cairn....The one at FQF is nice....but to see one that has been seriously worked with every day.....the results are quite impressive and nice...

===He was amused by the whole "quality" thing....and is on the same page there. (grin)

===Have you picked up his book yet? (and the new R.J.Stewart one is great to read in tandem...)
ext_5300: tree in the stars (Default)

[identity profile] helen99.livejournal.com 2004-04-20 08:49 am (UTC)(link)
Yarriel.. an old and resonant sound...

I forgot to ask

[identity profile] dreamfall.livejournal.com 2004-04-19 11:56 am (UTC)(link)
This motivates me to a post of my own, may I quote/refer to this posting of yours?
ext_5300: tree in the stars (Default)

Re: I forgot to ask

[identity profile] helen99.livejournal.com 2004-04-19 12:14 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes. I look forward to seeing the post!
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[identity profile] illuviel.livejournal.com 2004-04-19 12:21 pm (UTC)(link)
The land here had been assaulted by chemicals for decades (based on the look of the cartons I find in the back shed) but has had a good six years or so of utter-neglect-beyond-mowing, and the sentinel regreening plants are thick in the grass... it's ready to grow again.

I had a chance to visit with my old sanctuary tree, the grapefruit tree that grows in my ex's back yard, and bring home some of its fruit. I miss it, and I like to fancy it reciprocates ... now that there's heavy remodeling going on ("the sound of the hammers must never stop ..."), there is much construction debris in the back yard, making the landscape hazardous to anyone --especially the children -- wishing to play and climb in her branches. The land has none of the enchantment or feeling of sanctuary it once did, at least for me. I hope it can come back to that for someone there.

I want to recreate that feeling here... it is a definite, essential aspect of Home. A crossroads place where visitors are free to alight for a brief time of rest and respite before making their way onward ... whether physical or not, whether, if not, we interact with them at all.

I built a faerie cairn two houses ago, and would gladly add one to this property ifwhen I find suitable material to build it.

~*~

As for your talk with Orion, thank you for passing this on. I'm writing a thank you note for the Faƫrie Cairn he built at 4QF. Was very peaceful there.

Let me know how the semantics discussion goes? It would be an interesting experience all 'round, I'd think, to be able to discuss in a time and place like Thresholds. This is stuff of interest to me. ... feeling more and more the pull toward Thresholds-attendance this year.




ext_5300: tree in the stars (Default)

[identity profile] helen99.livejournal.com 2004-04-19 01:02 pm (UTC)(link)
> Let me know how the semantics discussion goes? It would be an
> interesting experience all 'round, I'd think,
> to be able to discuss in a time and place like Thresholds.

I'm not sure when we'll have a chance to discuss things with him again, or if there's a solution to the difference in perception. He really does not like it when people say they 'are' rather than 'they have the trait', and there are many who feel truly that they are, and would take that badly. Maybe there can be a kind of meeting halfway between the two perceptions -- perhaps a temporary suspension of one's own dogma for the sake of learning and communication about certain things, as both approaches are based on the knower's personal experience. But that kind of suspension is hard for people to do.

Interesting....

[identity profile] thomasrymour.livejournal.com 2004-04-19 12:54 pm (UTC)(link)
While I agree with most of what he said, there are some elements I have to say I disagree with.

Humans and Fae through the damn of history to this very date, have interbred with other species, not just humans. As the realms have separated, some of the Fae, and some of the humans, otherkin, plants, and animals were separated from the two realms. Granted, each realm is believed to be superimposed on one another, and some, seem, for whatever reason, stuck between the realms and are able to walk in both worlds simultaneously.

I believe that those in our realm, who are primarily human, (i.e. the reason they are in this realm more than the land of Fae) are results of interbreeding with Fae, Changlings switched at birth, cross-breeds, and those magically inspired or gifted by the Fae. Vice Versa - there are humans stuck on the Fae realm, who are just the opposite.

Those with awakening, or those gifted with Faerie sight and understanding, I believe are those chosen to bridge the worlds between Fae and humans. As you know,this is what my group Faeids are all about - those chosen to help bridge the gaps between the worlds and correct communication and understanding between the species, cross breeds, blessed, and ignorant.

This is the first time I've heard the distinction between the Fae and the fey as such.

I agree with your sentiment on that, I'm not sure I like that much either.

Sounds like you are doing a wonderful job building your faerie cairn ... yay!

Blessings,
Leaf

Re: Interesting....

[identity profile] dreamfall.livejournal.com 2004-04-19 01:06 pm (UTC)(link)
Humans and Fae through the damn of history...

I know that was a typo, but it just made me smile. *grin*

Re: Interesting....

[identity profile] thomasrymour.livejournal.com 2004-04-19 01:22 pm (UTC)(link)
LOL, yes, it was a typo.
damn was supposed to be dawn ... oops.
ext_5300: tree in the stars (Default)

Re: Interesting....

[identity profile] helen99.livejournal.com 2004-04-19 02:09 pm (UTC)(link)
Heh. I didn't even consciously realize it was a typo until it was pointed out... Seemed natural somehow..

[identity profile] ahril.livejournal.com 2004-04-19 01:14 pm (UTC)(link)
Hee! Yes. On lots of levels.

[identity profile] starlightforest.livejournal.com 2004-04-19 01:27 pm (UTC)(link)
One of the trees we saw was a Curly Willow - it was the coolest thing! It grows about 10' tall, and the branches grow in irregular corkscrew-like patterns - very pretty.

Oh neat! Those are supposed to be good for magical rods for certain types of witchcraft, namely those working in the luciferian/ophidian current.

He made the distinction between fae (the Forever Young, the Good Folk, the Ancient Ones) and fey (those Impressed with the Trait). One interesting thing he said was that if some people were Impressed with the Trait, this is most probably a 2-way event - some of the Forever Young are Impressed with human traits.

Similar stuff was in Faery Teachings and I gotta say that while I was nodding my head to most of the book, I just have issues with the notions put forth that "real faery cannot possibly be physical, they never incarnate" etc. It's like for all the "bridging" which is good, he still has a concept that ne'er the twain shall meet, that there's a firm division between "our kind" and theirs (even if there's some what carry a spark). I dunno. It may be, as you went on to say, just semantics.
ext_5300: tree in the stars (Default)

[identity profile] helen99.livejournal.com 2004-04-19 01:42 pm (UTC)(link)
> It may be, as you went on to say, just semantics.

Maybe - but it probably goes deeper than just semantics. I don't think he can or wants to wrap his brain around the concept that maybe the fae have decided to physically incarnate.

[identity profile] kyrin7.livejournal.com 2004-04-19 02:21 pm (UTC)(link)
Fae being physically incarnate is a pretty difficult issue fof some people. Admitadly, in my personal experience, those that didn't believe in fae have fallen into 2 catagories.

Those who don't believe in the fae anyway.
Those for whom belief in Physical incarnates threatens some deeply held conviction or personal lynchpin.

I believe in physical incarnation myself. It seems no more "out there" than any other belief based on faith of some sort.
ext_5300: tree in the stars (Default)

[identity profile] helen99.livejournal.com 2004-04-19 03:31 pm (UTC)(link)
> I believe in physical incarnation myself

Me too.

[identity profile] fendahleen.livejournal.com 2004-04-19 10:55 pm (UTC)(link)
"Those for whom belief in Physical incarnates threatens some deeply held conviction or personal lynchpin."


That's very true, and quite astute, but don't forget that the principle can work in reverse, also. I don't want to cling to *any* belief so strongly that having it thrown into question causes me to snark at people like a pro footballer who's just been asked if he ever finds other men attractive.


One of the things that has resonated very strongly with me about Tolkien's elves was that, while beautiful, ethereal beings, strong in magic and possessed of a strong empathy and harmony with the land in which they lived, they were, in effect, exiles. While their brothers and sisters still dwelt with the Valar, they themselves could not return home, confined to Middle-Earth, until long after their deaths. It was choice, on their part, though a bitter one. And for that choice, and the place they were forced to remain in, which allowed them to be slain, it is worth noting that they were no less elvish than their fairyland counterparts. Just a good deal more angsty, what with having to put up with humanity, and Morgoth stealing their lucky charms.

I personally don't know anywhere near enough to give a solid opinion on this matter, and for my knowledge of that fact, I consider myself well ahead of the game.

[identity profile] kyrin7.livejournal.com 2004-04-20 05:29 am (UTC)(link)
"Admitadly, in my personal experience, those that didn't believe in fae have fallen into 2 catagories."

Seems I should have reworded that a bit. more specifically, I meant believe that physical incarnation is a possiblity.
Hope the clarification helps somewhat
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[identity profile] rialian.livejournal.com 2004-04-19 06:58 pm (UTC)(link)
===Actually, I think that it can...he simply thinks that the explaination he has is more plausible with the information that he sees.

===I will have to admit, that it is a pretty good one to explain things.

===I may disagree with him, but it is still with the caveat that he is quite possibly right.
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[identity profile] helen99.livejournal.com 2004-04-19 07:45 pm (UTC)(link)
He always seems to respond to claims of being incarnate Elf or Fae with something along the lines of,

"SO. You mean you're one of the vast, godlike, powerful beings of nature, older than the planet, older than time?"

Or something like that. He doesn't take well to it. Here's the way I see that.

There are different levels/calibers of fae, just like anything else. There are beings on the Celestial and Inner planes (and those at the meetingplace of the two) which probably would never incarnate. In that sense he's right. They're too vast, too all-encompassing, too old, to care about physical form and would never go there.

But what about the fae beings who are neither vast nor celestial -- and are closer to the Physical? The "almost here" beings? Wouldn't it be possible for them to decide to incarnate at one point or another? Reasons could vary - it could be they just wanted the experience - were attracted to humans and to physical form. It could be that they were attracted to a particular human, and wanted to experience a life with them. It could be that they knew about the predicament humanity would land itself in right now, and felt their presence in physical form was necessary to be able to save the planet.

I don't see one viewpoint as completely eliminating the other.
ext_5300: tree in the stars (Default)

[identity profile] helen99.livejournal.com 2004-04-19 08:05 pm (UTC)(link)
Let me rephrase that. Let me replace "Vast and Celestial" with "Godlike and All-encompassing". The reason is, I just thought of an example of an otherkin who was both vast and celestial (your late brother and some of his friends...)

[identity profile] fendahleen.livejournal.com 2004-04-19 11:20 pm (UTC)(link)
One interesting thing he said was that if some people were Impressed with the Trait, this is most probably a 2-way event - some of the Forever Young are Impressed with human traits.


For the record, I don't believe this; in any case, it sounds more like he's theorizing than speaking from experience.

Mind you, with all the different concepts of faerie I hear from various people, we could be talking about entirely different species.

[identity profile] kyrin7.livejournal.com 2004-04-20 05:25 am (UTC)(link)
I think the problem is in perception, and definition. If asked what the fae are, I'm certain every person would have a different answer. It also depends, I think, on what ethnic/religious/what-ever-have-you tradition that your defining it from. Some may use "faerie" as a blanket term for all manner of spirits, while others use it for a very specific sort of being. The devil is in the details, I think.

As for me, I have a sense for what I think fae are, but couldn't give you any kind of meaningful definition.
ext_5300: tree in the stars (Default)

[identity profile] helen99.livejournal.com 2004-04-20 08:37 am (UTC)(link)
I think that's the problem - Orion's concept of "faerie" derives from English folklore - Since migrating here, things may have mutated somewhat. I have a theory that since people take up so much of the planet nowadays, a lot of critters who would otherwise avoid them like the plague are taking people-form so they can have somewhere to live...

That's just my mind rattling around though.
ext_5300: tree in the stars (Default)

[identity profile] helen99.livejournal.com 2004-04-20 08:38 am (UTC)(link)
I hope you're right and it isn't the case. I don't *want* them to be impressed with human traits. no, no, no. and no.

Trip

[identity profile] iliandriel.livejournal.com 2004-04-20 09:56 am (UTC)(link)
I love those places loving plants myself I cannot help it. The smell of fresh earth and plants is one of the most lovely to me.

Orion sounds pretty cool and like he has a head on his shoulders. This is a good thing and needed at times like these. I'm glad that you got the chance to talk with him. I would love to talk with such a one. Oh the wisdom and the knowledge he would have that is great.

Re: Trip

[identity profile] fendahleen.livejournal.com 2004-04-20 10:31 am (UTC)(link)
Orion sounds pretty cool and like he has a head on his shoulders.


I'm now imagining how he'd look strutting around town without one. Very Tim Burton, I suspect.
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Re: Trip

[identity profile] rialian.livejournal.com 2004-04-20 06:56 pm (UTC)(link)
===I fear what he would do if he was able to take his head from his shoulders. Knowing him, he would have a blast.

===Very Tim Burton, indeed.

Re: Trip

[identity profile] iliandriel.livejournal.com 2004-04-21 10:41 am (UTC)(link)
Indeed I think this is true. I don't think one would look good strutting about town without their heads. It pays to have a good head on ones's shoulder.lol

[identity profile] kitten-goddess.livejournal.com 2004-04-20 07:57 pm (UTC)(link)
The topic of conversation was Awakening ... the possibility that in the distant past, those from the realm of faerie, (a.k.a., perhaps, the annunaki), at one time interbred with humans, and if so, how does that heritage awaken, and what would be the result of awakening that heritage.

Sounds like the theory that Lilith interbred with all manner of demons, humans, etc. etc. to give rise to many different species with a common bloodline. Same thing, but different bloodline and minus the celestial aspects.